The shame - I didn't even get my own group!

very fun grid though :)

I'm honoured! And I had no idea you were Julie Andrews. I love the humour, and surrealism of this grid- I feel like I went to lean on the 4th wall and it wasn't there! I'd have given you 5 anyway, honest (without the name drops!)

Getting a bit self indulgent.

that was bad

Wow. where is numberWang when you need him. Require a decent grid

I try not to be mean on this site but I will comment if I think that armchair critics are getting a bit over the top- if you don't like it don't play it. Or make your own. Criticism is the death of creativity- if you want good grids, be kind and encouraging. Constructive criticism aids growth mindset but this is just bitching. Keep going Kier Lad, 15 yrs old but one of the best setters. :)

Lorna, the only people who'd be able to get a group of grid creators are the creators themselves. It's very self indulgent. If you're going to make so many grids, you've got to expect pushback on this kind of thing. Don't take it personally.

I'd reply to that with: although Keir has given a nod to other setters- our names are clearly visible on the site for all to see- it was a test of observation- I've used site details as a group myself. I'm not taking it personally- this is not my grid! I just get hacked off when certain folks' only input is raw criticism, or when a group all criticise one grid- it's a bit too pitchforks and torches for my liking- criticism seems to attract criticism. Some people (TCBH) are just plain nasty- nothing constructive or improving about that.

Pretty sure I'm the only one who said anything negative about this one. No need to invent pitchforks.

Read below. And bob has asked Keir if he's autistic.

Oh I didn't see Bob's comment about it being bad. He's right though.

Hamster, ToooCleverByHalf, bob- being nasty to KeirH and got called out for it- fair. Hamster nasty to Lorna too. Why comment if all bad? You all should apologise. Good grid, I got the groups, no trouble

Wow, this escalated.

To address everyone involved in the fray:

Bob - Yes, I am autistic. And if you want me to improve on my walls, I need more criticism than “that was bad”. If you don’t and was just being spiteful, you come across as childish.

TooCleverByHalf - See above. If you want me to get better, then the most you can do is give me some helpful feedback. I wouldn’t put “helpful feedback” in the same boat as “scathing comments”.

Lorna - Everything that she’s said makes up the whole crux of my point. A thanks to her for being a decent person.

Hamster - I guess name-dropping other users is self-serving from some point of view, I honestly just meant it as a meta touch. But you can make of it whatever you want. Just know that clashing heads with everybody and spouting non-constructive nothings does you no favours.

I’m not asking anyone to grovel at my feet any time I make a wall, note that I’m taking my criticism from people who can actually give it. Not those who keep fruitlessly spewing negativity out of pure hatred, or just to try to tick others off. I have to say to these people Remember these sage words: If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Which is basically a kind way of saying: Shut up, you plebs.
- Keir H

Lorna - you get involved in everything, you cant help yourself

Lorna - you get involved in everything, you cant help yourself

Just to say I really enjoyed this wall. It made me smile. Thanks

Thank you, Ade. Glad you liked it.

Fair enough. Speaking just for this grid, the grid creators group would've been taxing enough with just the names but hidden in word combinations! Wow. You can call me al group doesn't totally make sense but I would say it's the best connection in this grid. The group of 'groups in this grid' has been done before which is not a criticism, being a 'strectch' of a connection is, I cant remember many crossovers if any. Speaking just for myself, I like it when I make a connection or a connection is revealed to me and I think 'ah, that's clever,' even if I didnt get. Now obviously each person has different knowledge and different preferences which make each persons experience with a grid 'individual', I think the cause of negative feedback here is not solely aimed at this grid but an accumulation of grids from several users where the focus seems to be on quantity not quality. Dont take negative feedback too personally

Hi Cypriot, thanks for your considered and balanced input. I just wanted to clarify that I initially got involved in this because criticism WAS getting personal- comments such as "are you autistic?" and "Lorna, I generally do skip most of your puzzles, but it seems lately well over half of the puzzles published come from you. Skipping is fine, but skipping 50% gets a bit tedious" cannot be viewed in any way as constructive criticism and are not welcome. I do appreciate the tone and nature of your response to this ridiculous dialogue, it is much more constructive feedback. :)

:) :) :)